A Response to Steve West’s article, ‘Why I’m not leaving the United Methodist Church’

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  1. Can you add my name to that list? Although I have never joined WCA, I stand with you. I was at Clearbranch. I was blessed. It was Spiritual. It was eye opening. I left fired up and refreshed in my spirit. I am a Traditionalist and an unabashed, unashamed evangelical. God bless.
    B. Weems

  2. I am so weary of the statement that Jesus didn’t mention same sex relationships. As you so well explained, he went even higher in defining marriage. However, unless I have misread the Gospels, the only times Jesus spoke of the O. T. he was correcting their theology. “You have heard it said… but I say to you… ‘ Further, Jesus also didn’t mention beastiality. Are they inferring that this makes it right. I am weary. God, in your mercy…

  3. This is a great article! Thank you so much for providing us with the opportunity to remain Methodists and continue to stay true to God’s Word.
    Anne Deegan

  4. This was an excellent response – written with integrity and grace. These points articulate my perspective very well – thank you, I can only hope that I will exercise sensitivity and boldness like this when tasked with communicating during these times.

  5. A very thoughful essay. What I cannot understand is why the group wanting to CHANGE our long held beliefs is called the “main church” and traditionalists are labeled the “new church”. I believe in an attitude of kindness toward others with whom we disagree, but those who want to “change” our beliefs should be the “new church”. Nothing in the Bible or in human anatomy convinces me that God intended homosexuality to be his will. An example of my deepest grief with homosexuality is the situation of two men adopting a baby girl. To intentionally deprive a baby girl of her mother for the enjoyment of two men is incomprehensible to me. Men and women were made with many different characteristics, not just physical.

  6. Thank you, thank you for clarifying so many terms and sayings being thrown around confusing many. Just for the record, I am grateful for the clarification of the term theologically ‘traditional orthodox.

  7. There are many UMC theologians who believe that support for same-sex marriage is also theologically sound.
    And it is irrational to appeal to the sexual ethics of the majority of the Christian tradition when we already reject their theology on sexuality where it comes to women and divorce.

  8. I meant to go to the meeting. I was registered. Thank you for clarity and you can add my name to the list.

  9. While I do not agree with every bit of it…Steve has provided well thought out points and is consistent throughout his paper. Unfortunately, much of the divide in the church is motivated by power…fueled by a few who have chosen not to follow their vows and want to beat themselves on the chest…saying I can do whatever I want…and the Discipline does not apply to me. If the leadership had any intercity at all it would just tell all of those who choose not to follow the rules to leave.

  10. Thanks. for this insightful response to a leadership that is misrepresenting the voice of those who wish to see the UMC stay true to the Word of God.

  11. While none of us really know how the UMC question will turn out. I do not think of myself as a fundamentalists but more or less a classic, old school, Wesleyan Christian. It isn’t fun to sit around and hear all the gas exploding from those who seem to think they are not sinners; those whose aim is to destroy God’s church in the name of sin and satan.
    I am appalled at the number of pastors who defy the vows they took at their ordination. If you truly love the Lord you won’t turn your back on Him. Put away your bent to sinning and return to your 1st love.
    Confess your sin to God thru Christ and Repent for He will return as promised and will not be pleased with what He sees.

  12. Thank you for explaining our position on the “new Methodist Movement”. I have received Facebook messages repeating their stand on the new Principals of Methodist church. It really upsets me because what they are passing to millions of others is not true. I would like for them to express their version of God’s word under their name and not of our United Methodist Church. Our little Methodist Church has to close because the attendance was so small. I remember the days we had to put out more chairs but a movement like this can close a lot more churches but I am committed and I hope others are committed to fight back to keep our church intact and remain respected as we have always been. I will not let them take us down over their belief changes. May God watch over our church and give us good blessings of remaining together as one.

  13. Your heartfelt response makes your case in plain language. It does not, however, address one key point: There is no Biblical basis for a church split .
    Scripture is filled with calls for unity, with calls for forbearance, with calls for bearing one anothers burdens. It does not allow for the rending of the body of Christ, even for the case you have made n plain language.
    Some of the proposed remedies retain the unity of the body while allowing the practice of the faith to bear witness to the grace of our Lord as the Spirit leads those members and their clergy. None of them that I have seen require anyone to act in a way that violates their beliefs.
    What disheartens many of us is the proclamation by some that others are “not good enough”, or are “too sinful” to serve along side their presumed purity. That is not only sad, but dangerous. Jesus also said that marriage after divorce was adulterous, and that greed was sinful enough to keep us out of the Kingdom. Will the call to purity of heart and practice be extended to all human sinfulness, or just this one? DId Jesus death and resurrection conquer the power of only some sin and death?
    I fear that this unbiblical schism represents not merely a rending of the body of Christ but a rending of His Grace.
    And more’s the pity.

  14. Thank you so much for all of this. I have posted it on my FB page with the statement that I had have felt the other side was not being represented properly, that those in control had not exercised their commitments or we wouldn’t be in this situation. I have said all along, there is plenty of room in the pew beside me, I just don’t agree with your standing at the lectern or defying your own commitments. When a group has all the choices before them – PC US, Episcopal, other options they can go to and be happy and make others happy, yet chooses instead to work 100% to divide and conquer instead, I don’t see a line of love in those intentions. When the Bible is referred to as a pretty good collection of “stories.” I cannot find what I am looking for in that church. I will probably have a great deal of feedback from posting this on my FB page. That is fine. I love everyone, and pray for their salvation. I know I am a sinner and ask for forgiveness and I hope the Church can be stronger through this. How can nearly 1,000 come together prayerfully at a GC asking for a sign, get one, then decide it wasn’t the one “they” wanted? God bless you for writing this.
    Ed

  15. God bless you for responding to the previous article. I cringed at the untruths and misrepresentations as I read every word.

  16. Thank you Sir for the clear manner in which you addressed inaccuracies in an earlier posting. I have a hard time in understanding how the leadership of the Methodist Movement could choose inaction as an appropriate response when the Book of Discipline is clear on when action is required.
    Multiple times in the Bible (both Old and New Testament) the wording of “God hates” followed by a listing of sins makes me uncomfortable. The reason? My name was associated with many sins listed. I did not like these lists. However, my liking approval of them was not required. My obedience to what God clearly hates is a requirement.
    In this day and age we have made human sexuality the new golden calf. Things didn’t work out so well for the last group to worship a golden calf.
    The Methodist Movement has a choice – be influence by the culture (which is simply a term for “the World”) or follow The Lord. Given the Prince of the World is the enemy of The Lord, I will choose the Lord.

  17. I was told to retire or be black balled because I told the Bishop of Arkansas to take a stand on this issue in 2097.

  18. It is entirely possible that Steve’s letter and this response have caused me more sadness regarding what the UMC is facing than any of the angry discussions, comments, meetings or writings I have seen or heard to this point. My heart is breaking.

  19. Truly God has spoken through His servant Paul Lawler in this article. This will upset some and they will call you a right-wing zealot, homophobic, a hater and deceiver, etc. These are the ones who are taking down the ship and its time to abandon this sinking ship and go in the direction given to us by the infallible Word of God. God will chart the new waters and is the captain of the ship we will be boarding. Thanks be to God!!!

  20. I only read point 1, which i disagree with. The bible does not preclude loving, gay relationships, and many bible scholars support that statement.

  21. God’s unconditional love accepts us as we are, demanding neither pre-conditions nor false piety. Our challenge as imperfect Christians and human beings: Integrating God’s magnificent expression of love into our lives/relationships, or reducing God into our own image.

  22. …I AGREE WITH YOUUR ARTICLE RE: THE CURRENT UMC SITUATION CAUSING THE DIVISION IN THE CHURCH WAS/IS BECAUSE THE METHODIST HIERARCHY FAILED IN THEIR DUTIES TO ADHERE TO BIBLICAL SCRIPTURE AND ALLOWING SAME SEX MARRIAGES,…BUT I DISAGREE WITH YOU/TRADITIONALISTS ALLOWING FEMALE BISHOPS/PREACHERS,…1TIM2:11-14,…YOU CANNOT PICK-N-CHOOSE WHICH SCRIPTURE YOU WANT TO ABIDE BY,…ALSO, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE WRONG GROUP(LGBTQ) IS LEAVING THE UMC AND ANY PERSON/GROUP/ORG THAT IS KNOWINGLY/WILLINGLY OPEN MINDED TO EDIT THE BIBLE TO SUIT THEIR SIN IS DOING THE DEVIL’S WORK AND ACCEPTING THE WORLD’S WAYS,…I AM NO BETTER THAN MY FELLOW MAN/WOMAN I JUST DO NOT WANT TO BE A PART OF THAT MINDSET,…BEFORE I GAVE MY LIFE TO THE LORD I DID ENOUGH SINNING TO BE JUDGED BY WITHOUT BEING ASSOCIATED WITH A GROUP(LGBTQ) THAT IS WANTING TO COMMIT AN ABOMINATION AGAINST GOD,.. I DID NOT COME FROM A CHRISTIAN UPBRINGING AND CAME TO THE UMC BY MARRIAGE,… I DID NOT READ THE BIBLE TILL THEN WHICH I KNOW IS A BLESSING, BUT HAVE REALIZED IT MIGHT BE A CURSE BECAUSE OF SO MANY HYPOCRITES WITHIN THE RELIGIOUS ARENA OF LIFE,…AND BECAUSE THE UMC CONDONES FEMALES TO HOLD HIGH POSITIONS IN THE UMC, MY MEMBERSHIP HAS CHANGED SEVERAL TIMES,…WITH ALL THAT SAID , I AM SERIOUSLY THINKING OF LEAVING THE UMC,…WILL I FIND ANOTHER CHURCH?…I THINK NOT,..TOO MANY HAVE APPROVED THE WORLD’S WAYS AND LIFE IS BUT A BREATH,…SO IN MY SUNSET YEARS IT WILL MOST LIKELY BE A ONE-ON-ONE SERMON/PRAYERS,…FOR THE BIBLE IS THE INFALLIBLE WORD OF GOD-2TIM3:16/JOHN17:17 ; IF YOU NEGLET HIS WORD YOU BECOME A VICTIM OF DECEPTIONS/TEMPTATIONS…

  23. The tone of this statement is that of a judge and critic, despite the many protestations otherwise.
    1) There are numerous theologians who do not support exclusion of lgbt’s from ordination or of the expansion of marriage to include lgbt unions. That is never acknowledged. All educated clergy know this. Many laity do not. Clergy need to teach this,
    even if they disagree with it …. Many laity need this knowledge to deal with their families and friends.
    2) There are substantial denominations in our own time and culture who have prayerfully and at great and careful consultation come to accept lgbt ordination and union … That is never mentioned. All educated clergy know this. Many laity do not. Clergy need to educate laity about this. Laity need this information to deal with relationships in their families as well as within the church.
    3) Again and again, Rev. West is represented as disrespectful of traditionalists … but he is, from the first sentence, stating his own position far more than criticizing that of others. To him, to leave would be unfaithful. That does not judge, but confesses, as I understand., in the accepted biblical sense. “Here I stand; I can do no other,” is certainly a respected attitude within Christianity. That is not acknowledged in the statement, and that is not right or healing.
    4) The dramatic change in attitude towards divorce that has occurred within my lifetime is not recognized. In my childhood, my clear understanding was that divorce was not allowed for ordained people …
    5) Certainly the Biblical attitude towards marriage is fraught with issues troubling to disciples of Jesus. Multiple wives, staunch patriarchy, all sorts of power struggles, are described again and again … and that, too, is never acknowledged in the statement.
    6)In sum, the statement is not reconciling or conciliatory, but essentially a retort.
    I pray for more willingness to talk with rather than to the many United Methodists who differ from those writing the statement.
    In the same way, I pray for continued willingness to negotiate, to listen, to try again to remain together, for all of us. Let us recognize the pain that exclusion causes, even as we acknowledge the hope that rings throughout scripture and fellowship in our United Methodist institutions and relationships. Many admirable people are disobeying the Discipline out of prayerful deliberation. That needs to be acknowledged over and over. The Discipline had no statements about homosexuality until 1972! And at that 1972 moment, a conciliatory statement was added because of the starkness of the new “law” … We all know that, just as we know we split over slavery, and took generations to ordain women …The fact we are not yet parliamentarily agreeable does not mean we are not of the family of Christ. Parliamentary procedure is not the final word for Christians. We all know that … and to condemn over and over for breaking the law is not, fellow disciples, constructive.

  24. Thanks sincerely for the clarification. I like to add this: Our prior commitment as Christians is to the God revealed in Christ Jesus, not to any denomination, especially so when such denomination is deviating from historic Christianity. Our commitment to the Global UMC makes sense only insofar as what it teaches is in accord with the teaching of Christ as mediated through Scriptures, in this case what marriage is. Thanks again.

  25. It becomes a problem when one group declares what others believe. Those who accept centuries of shared Christian teaching and support Methodist traditional doctrine are labeled as being outliers and destroying our unity, is grossly inaccurate. I told a pastor over 50 years ago that a time may come that I would be put out of the Methodist Church, but I will never willing walk. Who ever thought that supporting Methodist doctrine will be the reason for being forced out?

  26. Please send this response to annual conferences. Many, including my own in Kentucky have put his opinion on their website without any counter to refute his incorrect facts. Methodists members need to have both view points and not only what the administration wishes to share. Thank you.

  27. Thank you for this article. I agree with you. Sad we are being asked to leave because we hold to Weslyn values. Not those wanting change to form another denomination.

  28. I believe in the words of God as expressed in the Bible. I stand on them as the solid foundation on which to live. They are not to be added to or changed or eliminated. This all sounds like a bunch of political gobbledygook. It is focused on bringing in the $! It is not about Jesus! It is about the book of discipline that was made by humans. There is only One Book. We need to stand on it alone. The people need to be taught The Book. Do you not realize the $ that will be required for abandoning The Book? The United Methodist Church must Unite and stand alone on God’s Book! No other book! Are we Pharisees. They made their own rules!

  29. Thank you very much for this response to Steve West’s article. Your explanations of this website’s position and clarifications on some of his statements cleared up some confusion for me. If possible, I would like to ask someone associated with this website the following question: 1. The Protocol of Reconciliation… has not yet been brought before the GC (as I understand it) or passed. Why has this website and movement already been established? and 2. When/if the Protocol is passed, what will it mean for individual Methodist churches, i.e. my own? In other words, what if a majority in our congregation disagrees with the passing of the Protocol? Thank you again…

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